Theology: A Response

Aloha friends!

Seth and I asked our friend and fellow pilgrim Louis Martinez, who is a Mormon and one of the older members of the group, to write up his response to the podcast episode, number 3.3: Theology. We think it’s important to hear other perspectives, including critical ones, because we are all on this journey together. So here is Louis’s review and commentary, un-edited. Feel free to leave your thoughts or ideas on the Facebook Group. Aloha!

One thing that I really enjoy about this podcast is its ability to have me think in fresh ways. David and Seth are charismatic, knowledgeable, and thought-provoking. Even though I’ve known them for a few years, something became super clear to me: “Christian Churches” really means the Evangelical Community. Most of the references, doctrine, and criticism are pointed to that specific Christian theological narrative. For the first time, I felt I was out on the margins. This was new for me.

While I’ve heard soundbites, many of the church leaders and Megachurches mentioned were not men/ churches I knew of. Yet, like always, the conversations are so rich, there is always something for me to chew on. While there was so much to unpack, I want to address two topics because they gave me a shout-out about them: the atonement theory and idols in the church.

While the atonement theory was mentioned, there wasn’t really any conversation about it. There was lots of talk around it. Clearly, they don’t agree with it and they used several examples which don’t apply to my Christian understanding as a member of The Church of Latter-Day Saints. I only delineate this because it was brought up in the podcast. I’m not trying to say one is right or wrong.
Before I move into the particulars, I was saddened by the fact that there was no clear definition of what this theory means to them. They mentioned aspects of the Reformed churches, near-death experiences, and how it’s not part of Christianity. Yet, for me, telling me what it is not, doesn’t explain what it is or why it’s incorrect.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not a reformed church. It is a Restored church. We believe that Joseph Smith was visited by Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ and they restored priesthood keys to the earth and lost doctrine. They restored a plan of salvation and similar to what Seth mentioned after we die, all spirits will be given an opportunity to choose the gospel or not. Free will is still an important key in all of this.
Now, I only brought that up as a point of clarification and how it doesn’t necessarily fit in the “Christian Church” box you are speaking of.

While the conversation moved on from that, the two brothers went to riffing like two jazz musicians as if they are the only ones in the room forgetting they have an audience. While I enjoy this energetically, I was still waiting for the promised answers.

I feel like there were so many missed opportunities. Atonement theory was never defined and no alternative was given either. What is the purpose of Christ dying on the cross? Seth mentioned crucifixion and resurrection, but no new definitions to what they mean. If there is no atonement, then there is no Fall. If there is no salvation, is there sin? What of the war in heaven? Is the good word of the Gospel only to preach that we have love and spirit inside and everything else is religious idolatry? If the Atonement is insanity, what is the sane view?
I want to be clear: the topic was brought up for discussion and yet never discussed.

Another lost opportunity is the point about power and idolatry. There was much talk about the conveyor belt of the Megachurch with Ravi being the newest member to have “Defective” stamped on his head.
They mention this idea that Evangelical churches are concerned with power, domination, politics, football, guns, and even Trump. Yet, I kept waiting to hear how Ravi built his god from a level of consciousness and that never manifested. What narrative is he, the other fallen, and newly to rise Megachurches pastors specifically keeping alive? What idol are you arguing about? So many ideas are thrown back and forth like a football and I’m not sure if we are playing American or European.

What I am left with is a lot of passion and the same questions. Might I suggest really fleshing out your version of the cross and the other idols mentioned and the alternative theories/ideologies/theologies? This will not only provide a rich discussion between two brothers but with the audience as well.

Want to say thanks very much to Louis for taking the time to share his honest thoughts. Again, thanks for reading see you on the road!